A rose tree/ shrub

A rose tree/ shrub
Message from clint01 posted on 06-06-2014 at 09:14:35 (D | E | F)
Hello,

First of all,I would like to know how we should address a rose? A rose tree or a rose shrub?
Second of all should we say his bud, her bud or its bud when we are talking about the bud of a rose shrub ?

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Edited by lucile83 on 06-06-2014 12:44

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from sherry48, posted on 06-06-2014 at 12:41:18 (D | E)
Hello.

Actually, it should be a rose bush. Remember, nouns don't have gender in English.

Sherry

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from violet91, posted on 06-06-2014 at 12:51:51 (D | E)
Hello ,

Actually it all depends on the species : you can have everything : a rose tree, a rose bush , a rose shrub . They are and look different according the way you choose,plant and grow them .
Have a nice sunny weekend !

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from lucile83, posted on 06-06-2014 at 13:01:31 (D | E)
Hello,

I think you are talking about this test:
Link

It is a fairy tale as you can read 'Once upon a time' ...so you can speak to a tree, to a nightingale and they answer you isn't it marvellous?

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from here4u, posted on 06-06-2014 at 17:24:53 (D | E)
Hello !
Sorry I didn't want to spark off a controversy ... I don't know much about roses (except that they're my favourite flowers , no matter how short-lived they may be ...) but I did have rose trees at home, when young ... and I do see rose trees and rose bushes everyday ...
As you could see, in the British Isles , Oscar Wilde had rose trees too ... As Lucile rightfully points out, I wrote right from the beginning that we were in the universe of a tale where butterflies and lizzards could speak and birds were capable of feelings and sacrifices ...
Let's give young (and less young) people the possibility to dream and imagine ... even if the story was a terrible lesson ...
Lucile gave you the link to the English Only site ... here is the link were fore-words were given ...
Link

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from lucile83, posted on 06-06-2014 at 19:28:13 (D | E)
Hello here4u

It is no use giving the link to the French version of the test as clint doesn't speak French
That's why the topic is on the English Only forum, and why I gave the link to the English version of the test.

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from here4u, posted on 06-06-2014 at 20:11:26 (D | E)
I see ! 'our 'Master' told me that I could re open these tests of mine, and I will definitely add the fore-words ( and summaries) for the 'classics'...

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from clint01, posted on 06-06-2014 at 23:24:51 (D | E)
I thank you all for the prompt replies.
Lucile is right I don't speak French.
Nouns don't have gender in English, Sherry. But when you love your ship we can call it her, can't we?
Yes you are right, here4u. Let's not limit our kids' imagination.

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Edited by clint01 on 08-06-2014 09:50

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from here4u, posted on 07-06-2014 at 06:37:46 (D | E)
Hello, clint
In BrE, a ship is undoubted 'she' (the British are so attached to their Navy ) ... Countries, towns and cities are feminine too: 'London is famous for her parks' ...
What is male or masculine suggests Strength, 'majesty', 'violence' and (sorry ! I don't agree with this ... but !)'ugliness'... ! ( Death and his scythe.) War is masculine ! whereas what suggests Nature, Peace, Mercy, 'sweetness' and 'Life' are feminine ...
Besides, when you know Oscar Wilde, you understand that for him, the tree had to be 'he', and the nightingale couldn't be anything but 'she' ...

Recently , I heard a singer 'Antony and the Johnsons' telling some prose, rather than singing a song : 'Future Feminism' telling bluntly that if God existed, if we want reasons to hope 'it' must and should be 'she'.
Many had already said that they had seen God, and 'she was Black '... ... Quite provocative and even very offensive to many, but food for thought, anyway ....
Anyway, now, when I see a Robin or a Dove, I can't help thinking that they are feminine, though I never 'address roses'! I wish all these were just clichés or poetic inventions ....

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from sherry48, posted on 07-06-2014 at 15:37:06 (D | E)
Hello.
Yes it's true, feminine pronouns are used for ships, and there are even some who refer affectionately to their cars in the same way. Pets, as opposed to wild animals, generally are referred to gender-specifically. Of course there are other exceptions, including nouns like prince and princess, waiter and waitress. For plants and other growing things, I doubt many people would feel sufficient personal attachment to do so. I'm glad to see that there are plenty of others out there whose "thumbs are greener" than mine, since in my area and in my yard, I have seen only the bush variety of roses.
This link speaks about this topic. Link

Sherry

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from lucile83, posted on 07-06-2014 at 16:31:00 (D | E)
Hello,

I added this in the tests, French and English versions, and in the three of them...
This story was adapted from 'The Nightingale and the Rose' by Oscar Wilde.
As you know, Oscar Wilde was a British writer and a poet. He used to give a gender to animals and things, and we can respect his choice I think. Anyway I like it. I do think a boat, especially a sailing boat, is a she, with her own soul.

There are between 100 and 150 rose species,most of botanists agreeing on a lower number, that is 130

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from clint01, posted on 08-06-2014 at 09:44:41 (D | E)
Hello,
I never thought that a forum could be so interesting and informative. Thank you for your replies and the links.

Oh before I forget I always wonder why we say 'ON the forum'. I am afraid that Lucile would probably say that I am not allowed to talk about another question here and would suggest opening another forum.

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from lucile83, posted on 08-06-2014 at 17:28:49 (D | E)
Well clint, thank you for your question...
I don't really know why we or I say 'on the forum'. Perhaps because we answer questions on the forum

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from violet91, posted on 08-06-2014 at 20:46:09 (D | E)
Hello everybody ,
I myself would say the answer is logical. When you do any kind of written test or whatever you like and need to write , you do it on a sheet of paper , on a note ..on a blackboard , on a paper board ...on ...anyway . When we type and post something 'online' , actually it appears as if it were written on a small screen . It is still on ...like a film is on . You also get page 1 , page 2 etc...
True a Roman forum used to be a public place in the open air where people would meet , sell or buy slaves or things ; they could also discuss about politics while standing on the place . Therefore , why be surprised with the use of 'on 'the English forum where topics , exercises , questions , answers are posted and sometimes turn into debates or lead to further explanations , as you can see .

Hello sherry , don't be offended by me , will you ? Do you remember Antoine de Saint Exupery 's masterpiece ' The little prince ' ( in its English translation, I mean ) who loves his unique rose ; when the rose speaks , she does ! The snake is 'he ' , the fox as well .
Imagination has no limits , fortunately , which makes tales wonderful and everything possible .

Have a nice evening ,all !

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Re: A rose tree/ shrub from sherry48, posted on 08-06-2014 at 21:15:07 (D | E)
Hello violet91.

French teachers often make better comments than native speakers! (Especially this one!) In literature there is poetic license, and many things are stated differently than you would in everyday conversation, as Lucile has also brought to our attention!
Sherry

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Edited by sherry48 on 08-06-2014 21:23
His love for his rose made a difference here, I think.

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