Would you prefer/aide

Would you prefer/aide
Message de sokhnamaryama posté le 22-01-2013 à 16:01:54 (S | E | F)
Bonjour,

J'aimerais qu'on m'éclaire svp un peu s'il vous plaît sur cette phrase:
Peter! Would you like this bottle of milk or would you prefer me to give it to the cat.
Pourquoi le "to" après me? Ne pourrait-on pas l'omettre?
Merci d'avance de vos réponses!

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Modifié par lucile83 le 22-01-2013 19:23

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Réponse: Would you prefer/aide de brettdallen, postée le 22-01-2013 à 16:34:05 (S | E)
Bonjour,

Je vais vous rappeler les structures qui sont en jeu ici :

Peter! Would you like this bottle of milk or would you prefer me to give it to the cat.


1) "Would like/prefer something": for example "I would like an ice-cream."

2)"Would like/prefer to V": for example "I would like to go with you." Là, le sujet aimerait faire quelque chose.

3) "Would like someone to V (something)": for example " I would like you to help me now! " Là, le sujet aimerait que quelqu'un d'autre fasse quelque chose.

La présence de ce To n'est pas anodine, en fait, mais vous n'êtes pas censé réfléchir au pourquoi du comment.

Cordialement.

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Réponse: Would you prefer/aide de notrepere, postée le 22-01-2013 à 17:02:51 (S | E)


Bonjour

Après 'prefer', on entend plus souvent en anglais américain 'that' + sujet + subjonctif

Would you prefer that I give it to the cat?

This construction is more rare in British English, but, like the subjunctive in British English, it is given as an option in "formal" settings:

Lien internet

Lien internet

formal I'd prefer you not to smoke

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Modifié par notrepere le 22-01-2013 17:38
Bonjour gerondif. While your ears were grincing, I checked all three British English dictionaries. Cambridge says "prefer someone to" is FORMAL while Oxford says "prefer that pronoun" is FORMAL. Macmillan just gives both possibilities. I guess the rule to follow is: When in doubt, just listen to gerondif.

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Réponse: Would you prefer/aide de gerondif, postée le 22-01-2013 à 17:26:54 (S | E)
Bonjour,
pour dire la même chose que Brettdallen différemment...

I want, je veux, et I would like, je voudrais, se construisent de cette façon:

1) Avec un complément d'objet direct:
I want this man, I would like this taxi.

2) Avec une action à l'infinitif, que veut faire le sujet du verbe:
I want to paint the door, I would like to go to the supermarket.

3) Si vous intercalez un complément d'objet entre le verbe want/would like et l'infinitif, alors ce complément devient le sujet de l'action exprimée par cet infinitif.
On appelle cela la proposition infinitive.
I want this man to paint the door. Je veux que cet homme peigne la porte.
I would like this taxi to take me to the supermarket. Je voudrais que ce taxi m'emmène
(m'emmenât) au supermarché.

C'est bien plus facile à faire en anglais qu'en français où il faut maîtriser le subjonctif et la concordance des temps souvent non appliquée:
Je veux que tu fasses tes devoirs: I want you to do your homework!
Je voudrais que tu fisses tes devoirs: I would like you to do your homework !
On dira en général: Je voudrais que tu fasses tes devoirs, c'est plus facile, et on est plus sûr d'être compris par celui auquel on parle....


I would prefer fonctionne comme I would like:

I would prefer that film.
I would prefer to watch that film.
I would prefer you to watch that film.
I would prefer you not to watch that violent film.

La solution de notrepère grince à mon oreille même si effectivement on la trouve.


Pour revenir à votre phrase:
Do you want this bottle of milk or do you want me to give it to the cat ?
Would you like this bottle of milk or would you like me to give it to the cat ?
Would you like this bottle of milk or would you prefer me to give it to the cat ?

Pour qu'il n'y ait pas de "to" , il faudrait que vous utilisiez un auxiliaire modal suivi d'une base verbale,= un "infinitif sans to".
Would you like this bottle of milk or can I give it to the cat ?
Would you like this bottle of milk or shall I give it to the cat ?
Would you like this bottle of milk or should I give it to the cat ?

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Réponse: Would you prefer/aide de gerondif, postée le 22-01-2013 à 18:21:13 (S | E)
Hello np,
you draw faster than Lucky Luke! I am very "gratingful"( Maybe I should switch from gerondif to grating ears)

What I meant is that your usage of "I would prefer" is closer to that of "I wish"
or "I had rather" ("I would rather" in modern English)

I wish he would come: Si seulement il venait!
I wish he came!
I wish he had come.

I had rather you didn't say that.
I would rather he didn't come.
in your link:
prefer that… (formal) I would prefer that you did not mention my name.
it sounds like: I wish you wouldn't mention my name.

For a simple preference, I would say the infinitive is enough.
I want you to give it to the cat: I am rather directive, bossy, but I focus more on the action (give it to the cat) than on you.
I would like you to give it to the cat: I am more polite.
I would prefer you to give it to the cat: same thing, I hide my will behind a polite expression.

I had rather you gave it to the cat: I express my wish that you would comply with my wishes, I hope you will accept, I oppose my will to yours, anyway, I feel a different meaning here....

"I would prefer that you gave it to the cat" sounds like that to me, but I would use "gave", not "give", just like:
Your link: I would prefer it if you didn't tell anyone.//I would prefer it if you gave it to the cat.

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Réponse: Would you prefer/aide de notrepere, postée le 22-01-2013 à 19:24:53 (S | E)
Hello gerondif

I think that there are some definite AE and BE differences at work here.

I would prefer that you did not mention my name. (In British English, it is customary to add a modal to avoid the subjunctive)
I would prefer that you not mention my name. (subjunctive)

It appears that non-formal British English prefers the past tense while American English prefers the subjunctive:

I would prefer that he gave it to the cat.
I would prefer that he give it to the cat. (subjunctive)

I would prefer that he were on time.
I would prefer that he be on time.

I would prefer him to give it to the cat.
I would prefer his giving it to the cat. (Another possibility?)


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Modifié par notrepere le 22-01-2013 19:58
Well, I have swum with dolphins and it was very enjoyable even though one squirted me in the face!

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Réponse: Would you prefer/aide de gerondif, postée le 22-01-2013 à 19:38:37 (S | E)
Bonsoir,
pauvre sokhnamaryama , j'espère qu'elle ne s'y perdra pas trop!!

np, you say:
I would prefer him to give it to the cat.
I would prefer his giving it to the cat. (Another possibility?)

Well, here is the difference I make:

I like swimming! (I have already done it many times, I am used to it, so gerund)
I prefer swimming to running. (same thing)

I like swimming but I wouldn't like to swim in the canal. (I have never done it, I do not wish to do it, so I use the infinitive after I wouldn't like)

I would like to swim with dolphins (it is a wish, a dream ,I haven't done it yet, or only briefly, so infinitive after I would like)

Now:

I would prefer him to give it to the cat. ok It hasn't been done yet, it remains to be done.

"I would prefer his giving it to the cat." sounds bizarre to my logic.a gerund implies it has already been done and so I can judge the action.

I would prefer your giving money to that beggar to be discreet, in order not to embarrass him. ok!

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